Replacing self tacking jib with genoa

Post here if you want to discuss a topic specific to the PDQ Altair.
Post Reply
jak430
skipper
skipper
Posts: 51
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 11:07 am
Location: Mexico (32017)

Replacing self tacking jib with genoa

Post by jak430 »

I am thinking about having a second head sail on board to replace the small self tacking jib in light winds.
The head sail is hanked on. Does anyone have a recommendation on the maximum length of the foot?
John & Regina
'DreamCatcher"
PDQ32 #17
bg5w
skipper
skipper
Posts: 88
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:46 pm

Re: Replacing self tacking jib with genoa

Post by bg5w »

John,

I have a 130% genoa that came with the boat. I ran it up the forestay several weeks ago to see how it would run. The problem I saw was the sheet would either have to run outside the stay, not allowing for close reaching, or inside the stay, not allowing for broad reaching without the sheet rubbing on the stay. I'm sure others have overcome this problem. I really don't want to install a track to have a movable block. Figuring this out might help determine your ideal foot length.

Bob Gruber
Island Time 32
User avatar
thinwater
admiral
admiral
Posts: 1110
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2008 8:08 am
Contact:

Re: Replacing self tacking jib with genoa

Post by thinwater »

The fact that the sheets on the 130% genoa run outside the shrouds is not the problem you think it is.

a. Since a cat with LAR keels prefers to foot to windward than to pinch (best tacking angle is about 100-105 degrees), it truly is better to have the jib sheeted flat (less side force) and outboard when going to windward. I have experimented with more inboard leads, and it only results in more leeway with less VMG. LAR keels need to be kept moving.

b. The outboard position gives a MUCH better reaching sail shape, without fooling with a barber hauler or whisker pole. Dead down wind a sheet downhaul is still advisable. I use a small block to the midships cleat and then back to the winch. I use this same downhaul with the chute when going very deep.

c. I use the full genoa up to about 15 true. Then I reef the main, then I reef the main again plus roll in a little jib. Always, reef the main before the jib, particularly down wind. Why? balance. The keel on the PDQ 32 are forward of the COE of the sails and so the boat balances better with more jib. The point is the 130 is not just for light air; it is the better all-around sail, IMHO. If I were in a high wind area, I would get an ~ 80% genoa and then perhaps consider a barber hauler to bring the tack inboard, for windward work on flat water only.

Yes, I have a self-tacking jib that is nearly new, but I seldom use it. Convenient, but doesn't sail as well. If I sailed in a smaller bay single-handed I would feel differently.
Writing full time since 2014.
"Rigging Modern Anchors,"Seaworthy Press, https://www.amazon.com/Rigging-Modern-A ... 1948494078
Book Store. http://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/2017/ ... store.html
amytom
admiral
admiral
Posts: 694
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:57 am
Location: Orlando, FL S/V DogHouse PDQ32009

Re: Replacing self tacking jib with genoa

Post by amytom »

Drew,
Do you happen know the foot length of your 130 genny?

What are your thoughts on jumping up to a 150?


Tom
User avatar
thinwater
admiral
admiral
Posts: 1110
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2008 8:08 am
Contact:

Re: Replacing self tacking jib with genoa

Post by thinwater »

I'm not at the boat, but when sheeted tight it comes about 2' past the shrouds.

No, I wouldn't go bigger. More foot is not going to make it any faster up-wind, would add leeway and heeling force, and would be too much trouble tacking. I also fill the furling drum as it is. Perhaps on a heavy mono, but not a PDQ.

But that is only my feeling.
Writing full time since 2014.
"Rigging Modern Anchors,"Seaworthy Press, https://www.amazon.com/Rigging-Modern-A ... 1948494078
Book Store. http://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/2017/ ... store.html
amytom
admiral
admiral
Posts: 694
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:57 am
Location: Orlando, FL S/V DogHouse PDQ32009

Re: Replacing self tacking jib with genoa

Post by amytom »

That's actually longer than I was originally thinking. I was thinking of bringing it back to the shrouds so I could sheet inside or out easily without the hauler. Of course a carabiner and rope to the mid-ship cleat is pretty simple too.
User avatar
mikeandrebecca
admiral
admiral
Posts: 346
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 1:38 pm
Location: In transit, s/v Zero To Cruising, PDQ 32045
Contact:

Re: Replacing self tacking jib with genoa

Post by mikeandrebecca »

We have a 150. If buying new, I would get a 130.
User avatar
thinwater
admiral
admiral
Posts: 1110
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2008 8:08 am
Contact:

Re: Replacing self tacking jib with genoa

Post by thinwater »

If I were buying new, I also would go just short ofthe shrouds. It think that would be most useful, particurly if you also have a chute.
Writing full time since 2014.
"Rigging Modern Anchors,"Seaworthy Press, https://www.amazon.com/Rigging-Modern-A ... 1948494078
Book Store. http://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/2017/ ... store.html
amytom
admiral
admiral
Posts: 694
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:57 am
Location: Orlando, FL S/V DogHouse PDQ32009

Re: Replacing self tacking jib with genoa

Post by amytom »

Where does everyone keep the foot. Brushing the deck or a couple of feet up. Wondering if a higher tack and foot would still give the performance but allow some visibility?
User avatar
thinwater
admiral
admiral
Posts: 1110
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2008 8:08 am
Contact:

Re: Replacing self tacking jib with genoa

Post by thinwater »

As a practical matter it has to clear the lifelines. However, given the high helm possition, you always have to more to leeward to see around it. On some boats a high foot can help, but I think that is impractical on the PDQ 32.

Upwind this is not hard, and when the sheet is eased the foot lifts enough to see under it.
Writing full time since 2014.
"Rigging Modern Anchors,"Seaworthy Press, https://www.amazon.com/Rigging-Modern-A ... 1948494078
Book Store. http://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/2017/ ... store.html
amytom
admiral
admiral
Posts: 694
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:57 am
Location: Orlando, FL S/V DogHouse PDQ32009

Re: Replacing self tacking jib with genoa

Post by amytom »

What is the concensus on adding a window to the genoa? I saw this is an option with the sailrite kits and asked one of our very learned sailors on the Chesapeake. The concern of cold weather affecting the window and furling came up.

Is this a concern for the warm weather sailors in the group? Does anyone have a large window in their foresail?

I'm hoping to improve visibility as much as possible when I get a new genoa; just lift the foot of the sail up a couple of feet?
Dan White
admiral
admiral
Posts: 136
Joined: Mon May 10, 2004 6:58 am
Location: Chesapeake Bay (36096)

Re: Replacing self tacking jib with genoa

Post by Dan White »

In order to have visibility, I had the factory cut my genoa 18 inches higher at the foot. Probably cost a 1/4 knot , but I am glad I did it.
Post Reply