Single Line Reefing Line Dimensions

Post here if you want to discuss a topic specific to the PDQ Capella.
Post Reply
NautiBits
admiral
admiral
Posts: 184
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:37 pm
Location: Niceville, FL (36086)

Single Line Reefing Line Dimensions

Post by NautiBits »

Hi all!

Can anybody tell me the lengths and diameter of the reefing lines? I see that there are four pieces needed from the drawing in the manual. There is no reference to the sizes though.

Thanks,

Joe Mc
Joe & Deb
s/v Cat's Meow
2000 Classic 36086

NautiBits
admiral
admiral
Posts: 184
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:37 pm
Location: Niceville, FL (36086)

Re: Single Line Reefing Line Dimensions

Post by NautiBits »

Here is a pic of the mast end of the boom:
Reefing Lines at Mast small.jpg
Joe & Deb
s/v Cat's Meow
2000 Classic 36086

User avatar
thinwater
admiral
admiral
Posts: 1095
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2008 8:08 am
Contact:

Re: Single Line Reefing Line Dimensions

Post by thinwater »

3/8" on the PDQ 32. They are not too highly loaded.

Samson XLS is prbably the best value. LS is cheaper but not as abrasion resistant.
Writing full time since 2014.
"Rigging Modern Anchors,"Seaworthy Press, https://www.amazon.com/Rigging-Modern-A ... 1948494078
Book Store. http://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/2017/ ... store.html

NautiBits
admiral
admiral
Posts: 184
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:37 pm
Location: Niceville, FL (36086)

Re: Single Line Reefing Line Dimensions

Post by NautiBits »

Thanks TW!

I didn't get a notification alerting me to your post.

Do you know if the PDQ36 mainsail requires a thicker reefing line? A reply on M4Us from an owner with a Privilege 37 said he has 1/2"(12mm) Dyneema on his reefing setup? You suggested Samson XLS. I'm not preparing for an ocean crossing, as the P37 owner is. We are getting ready to cross the Gulf from Corpus to Pensacola though.

Your thoughts?

Joe Mc
Joe & Deb
s/v Cat's Meow
2000 Classic 36086

User avatar
thinwater
admiral
admiral
Posts: 1095
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2008 8:08 am
Contact:

Re: Single Line Reefing Line Dimensions

Post by thinwater »

I don't have 36, but I've sailed the 32 (now 34) a lot.

* The 3/8 polyester lasts a LONG time, over 10 years, until it is pitifully sun rotted. The main sheet is also 3/8", and they are both 2:1 purchase. The mainsheet also wears very well. Thus, there is no reason to go larger than the mainsheet. Perhaps 7/16 on the PDQ 36 would be rational, but not 1/2-inch.

* Since it isn't about strength, Dyneema is only about stretch and chafe. Does the current line chafe? The truth about chafe is to solve the problem. Otherwise, you are just throwing money away and it will still fail. A lot of halyards get replaced because the cause is not found and solved. As for stretch, it won't matter in this application.

His boat is heavier, he may have chafe problems, and he may just feel good about unwarranted over kill. It's very popular on forums, where no one criticizes over kill, but everyone wants a bigger anchor chain. Perhaps they are compensating, or perhaps they just can't do engineering.

Be very wary about up-sizing lines. Ropes that are large for the blocks, even if they seem to fit, increase friction. If you up-size the reefing lines I believe there is a very good chance the increase in fiction will make internal reefing inoperable, particularly after the lines fuzz-up and twist a little. This is common problem with internal reefing. Brian Toss (well known rigger) once told me that big lines and small blocks to you" is a traditional rigger's curse. I've had 2 boats where people did that, and going back to the stock (correct) size was a blessing. If you feel the need to go up in strength, go with Endurabraid, not bigger.

---

What lines are critical when they fail? I'm not saying you shouldn't maintain your boat, but it's good to know what to focus on.
* Halyards. Climb the mast and make certain there is no chafe. Also cut a foot from the end and retie the sails; this will move the chafe point a foot.
* Sheets. Not that hard to repair on the way, really.
* Reefing. You don't need internal reefing anyway. If it tangles (it will someday) you simply go old school and tie it externally. No big deal.
* Traveler. Very low load and easily rigged under way.

I'd be far more concerned about standing rigging, through hulls, hoses, and engines. If those are good, the rest can be solved in the field or doesn't matter.
Writing full time since 2014.
"Rigging Modern Anchors,"Seaworthy Press, https://www.amazon.com/Rigging-Modern-A ... 1948494078
Book Store. http://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/2017/ ... store.html

amytom
admiral
admiral
Posts: 694
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:57 am
Location: Orlando, FL S/V DogHouse PDQ32009

Re: Single Line Reefing Line Dimensions

Post by amytom »

I agree about having the right line size for the block. My halyard was 1/2" and when I replaced it with 12mm what a difference in getting the sail up!
Recently redid the dinghy tackle now for the arch I needed longer line and one of the fiddle blocks was cracked. While ordering the replacement block I noticed the max line size was 3/8" yet it had been rigged with 1/2". No wonder the dinghy felt heavy!

NautiBits
admiral
admiral
Posts: 184
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:37 pm
Location: Niceville, FL (36086)

Re: Single Line Reefing Line Dimensions

Post by NautiBits »

I too agree that line size is important. That is why I asked the question in the first place. :shock:

I measured the reef cringles today while getting beat to death in ten knots of wind. Exciting! They are about 5.5 and ten feet above the boom.

I think the weather report was a little off. We were doing 8 knots when I rolled in the Genoa.

So, how can I determine what size line my sheaves were made for?

Thanks again.
Joe & Deb
s/v Cat's Meow
2000 Classic 36086

amytom
admiral
admiral
Posts: 694
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:57 am
Location: Orlando, FL S/V DogHouse PDQ32009

Re: Single Line Reefing Line Dimensions

Post by amytom »

Hold bits of line up to it until you find a diameter that fits? Old school but without written documentation...

For length, buy extra and rig with the sail up so that the double blocks are near the back of the boom. Test it out fully before cutting (not that I've ever made that mistake???)

NautiBits
admiral
admiral
Posts: 184
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:37 pm
Location: Niceville, FL (36086)

Re: Single Line Reefing Line Dimensions

Post by NautiBits »

Eureka!!

There are numbers engraved into the bottom of the mast and the mast end of the boom! Mine are:

Mast: PDQ36 SMI D01-206-2681 H-952

Boom: PDQ32 36 Conv E: 4190 SMI B143 2682 1040

The numbers all probably mean something, and maybe somebody here knows what? But, I think the B143 is the mast extrusion, and this Selden page lists the line rated at 10mm, or 3/8" for us average Americans:

http://www.seldenmast.com/products/Boom ... iders.html

The E number is the E number for the boom and sail, I think. So, this document gives the two short reefing lines an approximate length of the E measurement, and the port and starboard long reefing lines as 6X and 4X the E measurement respectively:
Joe & Deb
s/v Cat's Meow
2000 Classic 36086

amytom
admiral
admiral
Posts: 694
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:57 am
Location: Orlando, FL S/V DogHouse PDQ32009

Re: Single Line Reefing Line Dimensions

Post by amytom »

I would still buy long and trim later. Mr Murphy loves to gum up exact measurements.

User avatar
thinwater
admiral
admiral
Posts: 1095
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2008 8:08 am
Contact:

Re: Single Line Reefing Line Dimensions

Post by thinwater »

a. Yes, always 2-3 feet extra. Then you can trim to move wear spots.

b. The cringle size means nothing, they are generally over size so that 2 lines can be run. It's the blocks in the boom that matter. Internals reefs are prone to friction, so the fit must be very relaxed.
Writing full time since 2014.
"Rigging Modern Anchors,"Seaworthy Press, https://www.amazon.com/Rigging-Modern-A ... 1948494078
Book Store. http://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/2017/ ... store.html

NautiBits
admiral
admiral
Posts: 184
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:37 pm
Location: Niceville, FL (36086)

Re: Single Line Reefing Line Dimensions

Post by NautiBits »

Here is the Selden Single Line Reefing installation instructions that I tried to upload yesterday. It is 595-668-E :
Selden Single Line Reef Conversion Kit 595-668-E.pdf
(253.04 KiB) Downloaded 683 times
Joe & Deb
s/v Cat's Meow
2000 Classic 36086

NautiBits
admiral
admiral
Posts: 184
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:37 pm
Location: Niceville, FL (36086)

Re: Single Line Reefing Line Dimensions

Post by NautiBits »

Thanks Gents!

Great advice as always.

I'll measure a few dozen times today before placing my order.

Two clarifications for those wandering into this thread:

The PDQ36 Owner's Manual from the PDQ36.com site lists the mainsheet as 1/2" diameter and 80 ' long.

The reference to measuring cringles was not about the cringle diameter. It was the distance from the boom to the cringle(which the documentation from Selden agrees with).

Back to projects!!
Joe & Deb
s/v Cat's Meow
2000 Classic 36086

amytom
admiral
admiral
Posts: 694
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:57 am
Location: Orlando, FL S/V DogHouse PDQ32009

Re: Single Line Reefing Line Dimensions

Post by amytom »

Unless you have a stock sail I wouldn't trust the book measurements at all.

NautiBits
admiral
admiral
Posts: 184
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:37 pm
Location: Niceville, FL (36086)

Re: Single Line Reefing Line Dimensions

Post by NautiBits »

The mainsail is made by Triton in Toronto. I'm guessing it is the original.

The measurements I've taken are within the Selden limits. The book says the maximum reefing height for reef 2 is 'E-700'(actually interpolated since the B143 boom is not listed).The book further states that reef 1 should not exceed 60% of reef 2.

So, for my boom, E = 4190. 4190 - 700 = 3490. So, my second reef should not be more than 11.4 feet above the boom. Mine is 10.5 feet high. So, that one is good. Reef 1 can be up to 60% of reef 2. So, my 5.5 feet is under the 6.3 foot threshold.

I'm trying to make sense out of the Selden recommendations still. Why would both of the short reef lines be the same length(E)? That seems to make the first reef about five feet too long, since it is five feet lower than the second reef.

Gotta love puzzles!
Joe & Deb
s/v Cat's Meow
2000 Classic 36086

Post Reply