Engine alternators not charging house batteries

[Captnautigal]

Our engine alternators are not charging the house bank. When we are running without the generator, the battery voltage drops. There are no positive amps replenishing the batteries. Even when I first start the engines. zero plus amps shows on the meter.. After about 8 hours into our crossing to the Bahamas, I noticed the batteries were at 11.7 volts. I immediately started the generator and positive amps started to replenish the batteries and the voltage immediately went up. I get the same results when plugged into shore power. I emailed Dick asking for advice after making our crossing to the Bahamas. He thought I had a "yellow light condition" on the prosine. He told me to watch the combiner behind inside the electrical panel to make sure I had a green light not yellow when starting. I make sure the green light is on every time I start the engines - still no positive amps and the batteries start the slow process of draining. Am I missing something?? I've read the manaul and it appears this prosine is supposed to be smart enough to manage the house and starting batteries. I assume (and hope) the engine altenators are charging the starting batteries! We've been traveling for 3 weeks and they start with now problem. (I also carry a power pack just in case) I also assume the generator battery is not part of the prosine system. I was wondering if there is a fuse before the alternators that can be blown. I had some electronics work done right before we left and I know there was a incident where they had to change a fuse in the Raymarine network because they caused a short while working on it. We had the sirus weather module added and an additional VHF installed at the upper helm. If there is a fuse protecting the alternators where it is and what type. The boat is currently in Marsh Harbor, we had to return for a wedding and will be back in the Bahamas in about a week or two. Want to know if anyone has dealt with a similar situation, if I need fuses, (or whatever) what type of fuse (or related parts) are they; so I can bring some with me when I return. I carry a volt meter so if someone can explain where to test the alternator output I can start there. Any information would be greatly appreciated. I've been running boats for 15 plus years so not a newbie - just to PDQ and love it!!! I've read the entire PDQ Powercat Forum. It's a wealth of information. Thank you!!!

Maureen and David
Catatonic #74 (2005)

[Mary & Roger]

I just installed a new 250 amp combiner, and one of the fixes if it didn't work the first time was to remove the neg. wire for a few minutes, then reconnect. [re-boot?] The neg. wire is the far starboard small wire above all the big wires. It sayes negative, and is black.

[Captnautigal]

I'll give it a try when I get back to Marsh! It is strange that everything works perfectly with a 110 source. I'm still not convinced my alternators are working. My starting batteries are probably recharging when I have to start the generator! I may bring one spare alternater back with me just in case. Just wish I read the electrical schematic before I came back to see if there was a fuse on the alternators. I helped bring a Kady Krogen back from Novia Scotia last year and that was what failed when the engine alternator stopped producing power for the batteries. Different system but similar problem. All other indicator lights seem to be normal, variable cut in/cut out switches are at manufacturer recomendation. Small toggle switch was on auto. I was wondering how to reboot. We do not have the remote panel which apparently allows you to overide the combiner. I'm used to Xantrex with Link monitor. Still learning... Thanks for the advice. I'll let you know in a week or so how it works out!

[Captnautigal]

Mary & Roger,

How did you know you had to replace your combiner. Was anything failing or obvious?

[duetto]

we had the exact same situation when we first got our boat. boat came with 100A combiner. it has 2 solenoids. problem was that the sense wires on combiner were turning the green light on but the solenoid contacts on the house bank were burnt and not passing current. you can test if this is your problem by switching the "fat" battery wires on the the combiner. if it is your problem you will now be charging the house bank. i'm not sure if you will be charging start batteries when you switch wires. i went thru 2 of these combiners before we discovered the 250A combiner...problem solved.

the reason shorepower and generator charge house bank is because the charger charges the hose bank directly and start batteries get charged thru combiner when charger is running. on our boat, the voltmeter can read voltage on all batteries. if you have northern lights genset, i think it has it's own alternator and battery.

all of the above applies to our 2003 model year. not sure what you're talking about when you refer to "prosine". i assume prosine is your battery charger.

good luck. you can call me if you want @ 203-605-4155.

[Charlie34E]

I had the exact same problem on Elixir- hull # 63- and turned out to be the combiner- bad soleniod. My service tech said could change out the soleniod-(there are 2)- but since almost 5 years old, the other sould fail also, should just put in a new one. I did and no problems since.

[Mary & Roger]

Captnautical, You got all of the answeres ahead of me, but combiner can be found at Marine & RV parys supply. Go to xantrex on bottom of left side. part #84209403 This is the correct #'s disreguard previous post.

[Captnautigal]

Just an update from the Abacos. I took some time off from the sun and fun this morning and installed the new 200 amp battery combiner. Happy to report all battery banks are now charging properly - from the alternators as well as shore power. I want to thank everyone that contributed advice - not only in diagnosing our problem but also in locating a new combiner! As I mentioned in another post, all of the Pathmaker battery combiners are discontinued.

[Charlie34E]

I know this sounds crazy, but I replaced the combiner- see earlier post from me- but I have noticed that if I start the starboard engine first, I have the same problem!! I shut down, restart with the port engine first, and do not have the problem. House batts charging fine. Go figure!!??

[duetto]

are you sure that the starboard alternator is actually producing electricity?

[Captnautigal]

I'm back from the islands and was anxious to question the wiring from the battery banks. We've only had the boat since April. The combiner issue didn't make itself apparant until we were running for over 4 or so hours with a large electronic load - radar, plotters, etc. (I had the radar crash during a storm offshore from low voltage! That's what made me start paying attention to the volts while running.) When the system crashed, I immediately started the generator and problem was temporarily solved.

When we first purchased the boat, I did notice several times on startup, that sometimes an engine wouldn't start. (at that time I wasn't paying particular attention to which one etc) I always thought I just had a throttle lever slightly out of gear etc. I would get one engine started, go to the flybridge check levers, go below and then the problem engine started. So I assumed it was a lever out of gear from covering the bridge etc.

After I changed the combiner all my charging problems were instanlty solved. I can actually hear the solenoild switch on and off now. My house bank is always at about 14 volts when running. (I am assuming the display for my inverter charger is showing my house bank volts and that my electronics are running off the house bank) After changing the combiner, it became obvious to me that the starbord engine SOMETIMES would not start. I figured out that this would only happen when I was starting while at anchor with the generator off. The yellow light on combiner was on. If I started with the shore power still intact, or the generator running this would not happen). Once I started the starboard engine and the battery bank volts went up enough to kick the combiner back on (green) light on (I hear click of combiner engaging) the port engine would start.

When I switched combiners, I was very careful to move VB# label cables to the same bolts on the solenoids. I did upgrade from 100 amp combiner to 200 amp. I'm wondering if the original wiring has the battery bank and one of the starting batteries crossed. It would seem to me that the house bank should disengage from the system not a starting battery. It is my understanding, from reading the combiner manual, that VB1 should be the house bank. On my combiner VB1 is on the first solenoid (left side looking at it - left most nut), then the next nut has a jumper to the first nut on the second solenoid. The other two battery wires are on on the second selenoid.

I just got used to starting with the shore power on or starting the starboard engine first, waiting about 30 seconds for the combiner to kick in, then starting the port engine. This certainly isn't the correct way for the boat to operate. I hope this helps you further diagnose your situation.

[Captnautigal]

Just thought of one more thing. When the combiner disengages and the yellow light comes on, the switchable volt meter, at the top of the panel shows, zero volts on (I'm assuming) the port engines battery bank. I physically checked the port engines battery voltage when in this condition, it is fully charged. All other batteries show normal voltage on the meter but I did not physically test them with the volt meter. I'll fool with all this once were settled back in and report back.

[duetto]

years ago i spoke to xantrex support and they said the VB connection doesn't matter.

i think that the combiner works like this. when it senses a voltage above 13.2 (thru the small sense wires) it closes ALL solenoids. assuming that the voltage across all 3 banks can be maintained above 13.1 charging continues and life is good. my guess is that your starting problem is the result of a bad start battery. its voltage is probably too low to start the engine but once combined by starting the "good" engine the battery voltage is then high enough to start. i'd check the battery on the no-start engine. sounds like it won't hold a charge overnite or something is draining it.