A/C on a 32

[amytom]

We will be closing on our new (to us) 32 later this week (HN 9) The boat needs some glass work and a bottom job and is on blocks right now. I'm considering adding A/C while it's out of the water. What is everyones experience with temperatures in FL during summer (winter too I guess for reverse cycle)? The PDQ has quite a bit more ventilation then the monohull we have been sailing but after spending this much money "the Admiral" will want to feel comfortable.
Also which units and where were they installed?

Tom

[Lady of the Lake]

Tom,
On our 36, we installed a 16K BTU unit from Ocean Breeze right here in Stuart Florida, inspected the factory and unit while picking it up in person:

http://www.oceanbreezeac.com/

Although we only use it at the dock, it does help keep the boat dry and smelling fresh. I did all the work myself, no issues, came with a complete install kit. Keeps our boat very nicely cool at the dock when we need it and also has a heat option for those chilly nights. The big issue is the added weight. You need to make the call on that one. One way or the other, put in the through hull while she is out of the water to save money rather than having to pull her again later.

Email me if I can be of any assistance.

Sam

[Cat Tales]

Sam,
In the heat of summer, what temperature can you maintain the saloon & cabins during the hottest part of the day? Also, have you tried powering the Ocean Breeze with a Honda 2000 generator?

[phild]

Sam,
Where is the unit located? Any pictures?

[Lady of the Lake]

In the heat of the summer it works pretty much non-stop during the day to keep up but it does a pretty good job keeping the temperature around 80-82 degrees inside. A better design would have been to use 2 units but I didn't want to carry the extra weight. The big benefit of the unit is that it keeps the inside dry and smelling very fresh.

I have not tried it with an EU2000 but I suspect it will not work. Although it only draws around 12 amps and the EU2000 should supply that, the inrush when the compressor starts will certainly trip the Honda. However, my neighbor has one and I plan to give it a try in the near future. I will tell you though, I am not sure I would run it much when off the dock. I have never had the problem getting airflow while on the hook, it is the confines of the marinas where we find it the most stifling in the summer.

Also, I will try to remember to get some pictures later this week.

Sam

[amytom]

Called Ocean Breeze and ended up ordering a 20K BTU w/ install kit for $1900. I am hoping that I can use the same through hull as the head then plumb the post pump water back to the steering linkage area then run ducts out from there. I was told not to worry about a condensate drain line, to just let it run into the bilge as it isn't much anyway.
I already had one Honda generator and a second one came with the boat so I will try to rig the two together and see if it will run the AC.

Any thoughts?

Will let you all know how the install works out.

Tom

[Cat Tales]

While researching the Ocean Breeze units, has anyone compared them to the Flagship Marine (http://www.flagshipmarine.com) units out of Stuart, FL? They claim that their 16k & 18.5k btu unit will work with a single Honda eu2000i generator.

[Lady of the Lake]

Chris,
You may want to stop in and see them in person, they are within a couple of miles of each other in Stuart. As I recall, they are nearly identical in design. I can't imagine how an EU2000 could handle the inrush but we should ask for a demonstration to make sure they are not just taking the reported 13.3 amp output rating of the Honda and comparing it to the 12.5 amp requirement of the A/C unit without regard for the inrush. I guess I will have to borrow my neighbor's Honda and give it a try on my OceanBreeze.

One note for potential buyers. I compared the two units and they were so close they looked like they were made by the same company. I ended up buying from OceanBreeze because I was able to negotiate a MUCH better price on a complete unit with install kit. However, in the time since purchase, I have contacted both companies for things like installation questions, additional pricing, parts, and most specifically, routine cleaning of the coils which is a normal process in the nutrient rich waters in which I am located, and I must say that I have received much better support from the Flagship folks and I didn't even buy from them. Not that OceanBreeze was terrible, but the Flagship folks are extremely helpful. I don't think you can go wrong with either unit, just a note in case that is a deciding factor. By the way, it doesn't seem that there is as big of a price gap anymore either. Check to see that the install kits are equivalent as well, it seems like Flagship's may be superior these days.

[SecondWind]

Our Honda will not handle the startup load of the 16K unit, it might sustain the A/C's 13 amp load after the startup, but it kills the genset before it can get that far. We have a carry-on unit that we use for those really hot nights. It will cool one cabin and runs all night on the EU2000i.

[Lady of the Lake]

Tom,
First, there is a special cable available from Honda that will connect 2 EU2000 units together nicely. But you probably already knew that, just thought I would note in case you didn't.

Second, you can try the head idea but several folks I know have tried it and had issues. First, is it sized correctly? You need the proper water volume to cool these units or they will not work. They actually have a flow switch to shut the unit down when water volume is not sufficient. Second, make sure there is no possibility of air getting into the system when you flush, that will cause an air lock in the system and keep the pump from priming properly. And lastly, and most importantly, be sure that your modifications don't create a situation where you could be pumping water into your boat via the head input now that it has a pump attached to the same line. Be very careful, I have always been a fan of one thru-hull for each system, too many horror stories with the sharing concept. Your mileage may vary...

And third, whoever told you to let condensate drain into your bilge should get the "el-kabong" to the side of the head. NEVER drain that beautiful de-ionized perfect-for-growing-mold water into your bilge. Ever wonder why people are always cleaning the drain tubes in their houses? Ever wonder why they put those cleaning ports into the drains on home units? Why we run bleach through them to kill all the nasty stuff? Because it is a perfect environment for the growth of funk. Keep it out of your boat. I know this from experience on the last vessel. It was one of the most frequent cleaning tasks I had to do. And as for volume, on a hot day in the humid Florida environment, it was not unusual to get a gallon or two in a single day. No, don't do it. Get it out of your boat as quickly as possible. If you are mounting the unit above water, go right to a through hull very near the unit and up as high as possible, just below the unit drain. Keep the hose short, straight, and leave nowhere for water to collect in the hose and it will never give you trouble. By the way, since you have a cat with outboards, isn't your bilge bone dry? Why add moisture inside your boat that can only lead to dampness, mildew, and stink? Sorry for the long dissertation but this is a number one no-no and personal negative experience on a previous vessel requires me to dissuade anyone from making the same mistake I had. It was gross.

Best of luck with the install.

[amytom]

So how do you really feel Sam? Thanks for the insight, it makes sense and I will drain the condensate out. As for the intake, I will have to judge that when I get the unit in place, I will likely plumb a new one as it comes with the kit anyway. I was hoping to not install it as the new one will end up being brass and will be the only below waterline metal (except for rudder shafts and transducers)
Speaking of transducers, I will be adding a Raymarine fish finder sonar in addition to the depth sounder. Any thoughts as to the location of and type of transducer?


Tom

[Lady of the Lake]

Can't help with the transducer issue...

If it is a thru-hull type, I would assume it belongs in front of the keel, similar to the depth and log.

If it is a transom hung ducer, I would mount it on one of the steps (the one that doesn't have the ladder).

Sam

[Lady of the Lake]

Regarding the A/C running on the EU2000, the Flagship guy insists that it will start and run on the EU2000. His emails follow:

I asked:
You claim your unit runs on a single Honda EU2000. I can see how the unit requiring 12.6 amps can run on the Honda supplying up to 13.3 amps but how can the Honda supply enough current to handle the inrush for compressor start up? What is the inrush current requirement?

Tom Martland from Flagship replied:
The inrush is milliseconds and we have many customers using the 2KW Honda with our units. Be sure to use at least #12 - #10 is better power supply wire and the shortest, heaviest shore power cord.

And then I asked:
Have you ever measured the inrush current to see what it is?

Tom Martland from Flagship replied:
No we have not, but the Matshushita rotary compressors combined with our standard hard start caps enable them to start with very little inrush.

I will borrow an EU2000 and give it a try. I will report back as soon as I can get my hands on one.

Sam

[Knotty Cat]

I had a fishfinder installed when I purchased my boat. It was installed ahead of the keel in the port hull. By having a transducer in each hull you can get an indication of a channel location and keep to the middle. Raymarine uses Airmar transducers. Mine came with a short foil adapter but the new one I bought came with a much longer foil that requires an additional bolt to keep it from twisting. I moor my boat in a tidal area and when I get a wind against tide condition the mooring chain rubs the bottom of the hull and the forward face of the keel. Because of this I destroyed the speed sensor that was part of the transducer since it was right on the bottom. My speed sensor on the other hull is independantly mounted off to the side and doesn't have the same problem. I had to buy the new sensor as the old one was damaged by a lightning strike which ruined my fishfinder and damaged all my other electronics. I have yet to install it as I'm worried about the longer foil being damaged by my mooring chain.

[Cat Tales]

Sam,

I also received the following reply from Flagship & Tom stated their FM16R & 18RLT will both work with the Honda 2K.


From Flagship Marine:
The sizes and specs on our web site are correct and the prices.

You can figure 1.5 start up surge on the units and does not include
the water pump. There is a built-in three minute delay when the
units are turned on. The fan comes on immediately but the water
pump and compressor are on a three minute delay.

The amp draw on the FM18.5R is 14.5 amps. Please excuse
the typo.

Any other questions, just give us a call.

Have a great weekend.
Ernie
772-283-1609

Tom also stated, over the phone, to wire the water pump with a delay or independant so that it can start prior to the compressor. This should free up enough power to not trip the Honda 2K.

Please let me know your results.

Thank you!